McAlester Watercooler PERHAPS the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason. Thomas Paine - Introduction to Common Sense Rat Mail  TV Listings  NewsCapital  Yellow Pages  Mail  Docs New Watercooler Portal via Google
Opinion 10352
	Opinion submitted by Hal on 2010-03-09 08:07:47    (reads 1701)
	Firefighters Salaries -- Budget - FY-2010 Re-posted by request. Note: file date is in May 2009 -- so there have likely been changes.
	Comment submitted by Apathy on 2010-03-09 11:21:06
	Here are the salaries for the fire UNION officers: Mark Parker..$57,448. Heath Marco..$55,801. Mike Caniglia..$51,654. Clint Armstrong....$43,337. Jim Poder is not shown on this sheet. Doug Basinger, who sent out those inflammatory and false emails makes $64,458. But the winner to beat all winners has to be Jeff Nave. A former meter reader who couldn't do that right; who had to leave town and have his police chief daddy stop manslaughter charges from being filed against him for using a kids' head as a pile driver into the concrete parking lot is (wait for the sound of applause here) making $67,056! All of these guys plus all the others making huge salaries are doing this job PART TIME! They work about 9 days a month and this is why Mitherman wants our water bills go up???
	Comment submitted by Bryan on 2010-03-09 18:16:09
	These salaries are ASTOUNDING! William Jernigan, Lt., made $105,505, that included $17,643 mo. "Buy Back". Phillip Stipe made $98,969,includled $16,451 buy back, and the illustrious Jeff Nave made $89,898, included $14,783. The list goes on, all making around $90,000. I ask you, do you think they need MORE money since many of them have other jobs, can we afford to keep these men in the style they have become accustomed. Are they worth it?
	Comment submitted by okieboy on 2010-03-09 18:43:14
	Need an all volunteer department....
	Comment submitted by Pete on 2010-03-09 19:13:50
	These salaries are 40% MORE than 9 other cities,comparable to our size, in the ENTIRE state of Oklahoma! You have to ask, who in the hell is looking out for our tax money. It certainly is not the ones doing the "negotiating" with the Union. I want something done about this and now that we have Steve Harrison on the council, I hope he presents this info to the Newspaper or at least brings it up when more money is asked for that we cannot afford. I wish the News Capital would publish this information. Thank you Hal for printing it.
	Comment submitted by axe on 2010-03-09 21:26:49
	After looking at these figures, how can some of you say the non-uniform employees are OVER PAYED!
	Comment submitted by Brother on 2010-03-09 21:28:49
	The News Capital doesn't print SHIT, Susan. Ask them why they're sitting on the explosive story (pun intended) on Sabre?
	Comment submitted by Susan on 2010-03-09 21:37:35
	I will. While I'm at it, I will ask why they don't publish these salaries, break them down like Hal did. I had trouble getting them to come up until I enlarged the print, in case anyone else took a look. I think the folks at the newspaper read this blog, they surely have the info but will make an inquiry.
	Comment submitted by Susan on 2010-03-09 21:42:14
	Thanks for posting Hal. I printed the list for distribution. Amazing how uneducated some of our tax payers are about where our city money is going, this will help explain AND show them in print.
	Comment submitted by Buddy on 2010-03-09 22:51:47
	Axe - you guys need to be asking why the City Council continues to put up with this mockery of a pay plan. Remember, our water bill money goes into the MPWA fund to fix the water plant, the sewer plants, and repair the utility lines. But where does a huge part of it actually go every year??????? To pay these firemen salaries because there is not enough money in the General fund to do it. That's why we don't have enough other employees and why we don't have equipment and can't pay a decent salary. FIRE DEPARTMENT EATS IT UP!!!!!!!!!!
	Comment submitted by Ishmael on 2010-03-10 08:52:11
	They are going to continue eating it up. I think we need a thorough audit as to where ALL the money goes. It was never done, should have been.
	Comment submitted by grammy on 2010-03-10 12:56:53
	How on God' green earth can this information be true, and yet nothing gets done about it????? There's not one person in the fire dept or city hall in any capacity that should earn the kind of money the Nave kid has received...omg
	Comment submitted by Buddy on 2010-03-10 13:26:43
	Just like Pete says in one comment - NOBODY at city hall will do any kind of tough negotiation on the contract with the firement. NOBODY has any guts. Management needs to just flat out say 'NO'. We're not going to pay these kinds of inflated salaries any longer. If you don't like it, stuff it. Take it to arbitration. We don't have the money to pay an arbitrator. So stuff it. You don't like it - take it to a vote of the people and see if THEY want to keep paying for this kind of NASTY, FILTHY GREED.
	Comment submitted by Chass on 2010-03-10 13:36:25
	Buddy then they would target the elderly adn others.. and push the if we dont get it your insurance rates will sky rocket and so on and so forth.. and we may not eb able to respond to a fire at your house in time to save you or your blongings... remember they pulled it at another election....
	Comment submitted by Hal on 2010-03-10 14:00:34
	Our local firefighters actually do consider themselves to be 'heroes' for their fire protection and ambulance service. They have rationalized and believe they are 'entitled' to their salaries. And because they believe so they can justify to themselves what they do to protect and 'maintain' their pay levels. Trying to tell them otherwise just makes them defensive and more adamant. Those are the majority of the firefighters. They think of themselves as our local 'jock' heroes much like sports players. However, there is an 'elite' group that largely controls the union that know exactly what they are doing and use the others as dupes. Some are firefighters and some are 'politicos' just using them.
	Comment submitted by grammy on 2010-03-10 14:25:38
	Maybe volunteer firefighters is the answer...one poster mentioned that earlier. City hall needs to be picketed, and would have been by now if many citizens could afford the consequences...cant fight city hall...you can, but you lose.
	Comment submitted by schultz on 2010-03-10 15:07:54
	Lose for sure it you don't try.
	Comment submitted by Buddy on 2010-03-10 15:27:45
	Chass, then what you are saying is that the firemen will LIE and BLACKMAIL and DECEIVE people to get what they want.....and you think the people will actually fall for it? Guess I thought that's why we have a city manager and an elected council to RUN THE CITY.....not let 35 goons ruin it. The cops work a full shift all the time for their money, and even though I don't have their salaries sitting in front of me, I can't believe any of them come close to making almost $100,000 a year!!!
	Comment submitted by Bryan on 2010-03-10 18:18:25
	They are about 10% over, compared to 9 other cities our size, I have no problem with them. The firemen are intimidators, know they do not deserve the high salaries they receive. Our elected representatives on the council should be addressing this issue, we can't afford the salaries. We need a house cleaning at City Hall, the audit would show clearly where the money has been going and it is NOT for better streets or water. Basics anywhere else.
	Comment submitted by Doberman on 2010-03-11 01:09:46
	I am new poster to this site but I read it quite often & I am disturbed by some of the things I read on here. I am friends with a few of these Firemen that yall hate so much. The guys I know on M.F.D. are all really great guys & friends & have great families. They are not the evil greedy monsters you people say they are. They are just like anybody else they want Mcalester to thrive & have good roads,jobs & good clean water to drink. And I also know these guys dont make these kinds of salaries a year. These figures are high 20,000 to 30,000 dollars. I personally saw one of my M.F.D. friends income tax statement for 2009 its about $21,000 lower than the grand total he is listed at on this chart. They dont get paid for their insurance,medicare,unemployment,& pension. As for the buybacks goes I think every city employee gets buybacks the last 30 months of their 20 year careers. Yes these guys only work 10 24hr. shifts per month but that is 240hrs a month, thats more hours a month than if you worked 40hrs a week per month. But they dont get to go home at 5 oclock & are away from there families 24hrs at a time & on Holidays. And they dont just sit around all day & sleep. I know that the ambulances stay busy all hour
	Comment submitted by Doberman on 2010-03-11 01:18:55
	I know that the ambulances stay busy all hours of the day & night. The guys I know are contantly training & having class of some sort to try & help them save the lives of you people that hate their guts. Some of the guys that I know do have a second job because they have to. Its hard to raise a family on $30 to $50 a year as you all should know. I have heard a few of the stories about some of the dangerous house fires they have gone into & ambulance runs & car wrecks they have been on with adults & kids sometimes dead & mangled & I wouldnt do it. I for one respect these guys for the job they do! I think public safety Fire/Police jobs should only be cut as a last resort. The city has already laid off 3 fireman for a total of 4 terminated positions on a Dept. that staffing has been basically the same for 30 years. I think this town has growed quite a bit in 30 years & now we are getting a 4th fire station that the city has been trying to get since 1982 & guess what there is not enough guys to run 4 stations. So rumor has it they are going to shut down one of the other stations. Lets see what yall think when they shut down a fire station down in your neighborhood!
	Comment submitted by Hal on 2010-03-11 06:16:41
	NO -- lets move the ambulance service out of the fire department -- and out of the City -- as an independent service. Firefighters are much more expensive to employ than EMT and paramedics. This would INCREASE the total number of jobs, improve fire protection, and lower City expenses. Likely save City jobs in the long run. Because someone is said to be a 'good guy' is NO reason for special enhanced pay. What you are proposing is guaranteed to COST jobs in the long run for firefighters and paramedics. PLUS decrease the quality of community services. Desire (or want and greed) doesn't create the needed money. Firefighter Stupid. McAlester Stupid.
	Comment submitted by Hal on 2010-03-11 06:22:01
	BTW -- this town HAS NOT GROWN at all in the past 100+ years. Population is practically unchanged. Why? McAlester Stupid.
	Comment submitted by Hal on 2010-03-11 06:30:25
	Also the PROBLEM is how busy the ambulance service is -- TOO BUSY -- happens all the time that a fire occurs and most of the firefighters are out on ambulance calls. Making them late to the scene of the fire. This is really costing people -- and even the dreaded insurance companies -- money. In the long run if anything is going to lower the fire service rating this should. Meaning higher insurance rates. Think things through McAlester.
	Comment submitted by Hal on 2010-03-11 08:08:16
	BTW -- Doberman, I'm a Democrat. But will not support the local Pittsburg County Democratic Party. Its far too corrupt -- to the point of being a criminal enterprise.
	Comment submitted by Popeye on 2010-03-11 12:17:06
	Doberman......the city budgeted those salary and benefit amounts. The city PAID those salary and benefit amounts. Your friend either received ALL that money, or someone stole it from him. Those figures don't lie. They are proof that the department as a whole is enormously overpaid and bloated. ... Read Full Text
	Comment submitted by Pete on 2010-03-11 16:58:55
	Doberman, the figures you saw posted for last year, they are available to anyone. Check with Steve Harrison if you want to be enlightened about what the firemen are paid. Is he your councilman? He represents Ward 2, the man can crunch numbers, so can Hal, check it out thru your councilman if Steve i ... Read Full Text
	Comment submitted by moondance on 2010-03-11 20:45:09
	If Mcalester, the city, the employees, the services, the politics are so bad, dishonest and distasteful to you people, why do you live here?
	Comment submitted by Buddy on 2010-03-11 21:35:51
	Why leave and let you have all the fun???
	Comment submitted by Hal on 2010-03-11 22:22:55
	Born and raised here. Have to be somewhere. What is your excuse?
	Comment submitted by Rat on 2010-03-12 13:24:32
	What a firefighter salary can buy
	Comment submitted by Sparrow on 2010-03-12 14:22:29
	PUKE! PUKE! PUKE! PUKE!     As a McAlester taxpayer, I don't want to pay for this!!!!!!!!!!!
	Comment submitted by Pete on 2010-03-12 17:27:26
	Sooner or later, someone will wise up and get rid of the overpaid city workers, start with Department Heads, then the Firemen. We are not getting much for our tax dollars now, we won't miss them.
	Comment submitted by new-man on 2010-03-13 08:05:44
	Notice the slogan "Find them Hot, Leave them Wet". I sure feel for his wife. This guy is absolutely not a role model.
	Comment submitted by Popeye on 2010-03-13 10:13:55
	new-man -- he never was intended to be a role model. He was and still is a great big fat punk. The only reason he got on at MFD was because his Daddy was Police Chief and Randy Green owed him. So, of course, he got the job. Right now, maybe half that department could be considered to be professi ... Read Full Text
	Comment submitted by Bryan on 2010-03-13 13:04:01
	Amen to that, the NAVE "kid" would have wound up in prison if not for his crooked Police Chief father pulling strings. He could not have gotten a minimum wage job anywhere else.